|
|
Post by Duilin on Dec 21, 2007 8:21:26 GMT
Hmm...interesting thoughts all around. I like the idea that everyone is practicing, and that might have some role. It seems to me that Galphant has at least two groups that he needs to get past to use the stone to talk to Rómendacil. One is the Arthedain officials who are in charge of the Palantír. The other is the other members of his own delegation, particularly Adrahil and Belecthor (although Belecthor, at least, should be easily taken care of), but also Orogost. The whole reason that the whole council is there is because nobody trusts anybody else.
That stuff, though, is my responsibility to get around. In terms of the other stuff, my plan is that the set-up is going to entail some difficulty for Galphant and his crew, and, at least initially, they won't have any clear plan. There's going to be a lot of waiting on events and seeing how it works out.
I would like for there to be some useful role for Duilin and Thurisind in all this.
A thought in terms of whether it would be staffed. Of course, in theory the stone might light up in the middle of the night with an urgent message. But is there any real situation where this would be necessary? I can't think of any particular situation where a message couldn't wait a few hours for morning - it's not as though the recipient can actually do much of anything immediately. If, say, Fornost was the subject of a sneak attack, it'd still take weeks for a relief force from Amon Sûl to reach the capital, and a few hours won't make much difference. But however you guys want that to work out is fine.
In terms of stealing a few minutes, I think the issue is that a few minutes wouldn't be sufficient for Galphant to actually get into contact with Rómendacil himself and get anything done. It'd have to be a few minutes several times over for anything to be accomplished.
At any rate, I'll try to finish up my Duilin casing the joint post soon. I'd love it if one of you guys' characters encountered any of mine - I'm anxious to start getting more fully integrated into things.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valandil on Dec 21, 2007 12:08:51 GMT
Gordis - I don't know if it's necessary for the verbiage to state that Amlaith cedes the rest of Arnor as long as there are any remaining descendants of the other two. For one - a lawyer could pretty well extract that implication from what I already suggested. For another - it seems an odd thing to do, from Amlaith's position - to allow verbiage that's so explicitly against an eventual re-joining, and to be singled out by it. And I'm not sure what his brothers could offer in exchange for making the wording so direct.
I'll have to think more about keeping someone on hand in the same room as the Palantir. People weren't so obsessed with being constantly available in the distant past. OTOH, contrary to what Duillin suggests, a few hours has often been crucial in warfare. If someone is alerted and men are ready to march at dawn, that may be a lot better than finding out the problem after breakfast. Maybe there's more than one 'check-in' - routine 2-hour intervals over night? Or two hours before dawn as well as two after sunset?
And yes - Galphant will need more than a single 10 minute attempt. What if nobody's there? Even if they are, a request would have to be relayed to Romendacil, and then he has to decide if he wants to bother.
Yes Duillin - we need to get you in, and we should try to find a good use for your main two characters. I've been a little overwhelmed with: (a) life in general, (b) some catch-up posting I need to do, and (c) all the characters and intrigues you've introduced already. That doesn't mean I'll never get to it - but it's been forstalled a bit - and too easy to keep putting it off. But... maybe we should just try to start small. Perhaps Gimilbeth meets Galphant in a corridor, or Beleg lingers with someone (gotta check for the right name - the son who would be about his age), maybe with siblings or other youngsters around, after dinner - or Duilin and Thurisind fall in with a painter, a driver, some Dwarves and a couple of Elves.
If we all start with a few small posts, maybe that will help. If we're too slow for you Duillin - go ahead and force our hands by doing a short post to introduce any one (or, separately, all) of those encounters suggested above).
Oh (Gordis & Duillin) - Amon Sul configuration - here's what I'm imagining, so let me know what you think: a Greek Cross form (four equal legs), enclosed by a circle - each component very thick (prob a passage with rooms on either side throughout), and about 3-4 stories high. The Tower is at the center. Weathertop was said to be 1000 feet, right? The tower at Minas Tirith is 300' above the top level of the city... should this tower be ~ 250'? Or should it surpass the 300' of Minas Tirith, build late 3rd Age? (note - you don't have to ALWAYS build taller, even if you can). Anyway - maybe the circle radius is about the same as tower height.
Comments?
|
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Dec 21, 2007 13:15:55 GMT
OK, let the wardens only check on the stone once or twice in the night - at appointed hours. Val - did you mean something like that? I made the cross larger than the tower base to allow people to go from one wing into the other withut passing through the Tower. Also I rotated the cross 45 degrees to get direct access to the Tower from the Fortress Gates. The warden will live in the Tower itself. I think in the wings the ground level will be occupied by windowless storage rooms. The First floor will have only window slits with heavy bars - so we can house servants and guards there. The upper level - second floor - will have normal windows and will be reserved for guests. - OK?  Amon Sul - without outbuildings, Kitchens, stables etc. It is only a rough draft - please post suggestions. |
|
|
|
Post by Duilin on Dec 21, 2007 15:32:41 GMT
In terms of the language of the treaty, the language ought to be ambiguous, but at the same time provide enough information for it to be useful for a variety of different interpretations. Perhaps Amlaith shouldn't cede his rights forever, but there should be language to the effect that a) Amlaith renounces his right to succeed to the whole of the kingdom (this would be necessary for his brothers, I think); and b) that each kingdom will be inherited by the heirs of each respective brother. I think everything beyond that should be left vague - at the time, it wouldn't have seemed important to get into details - presumably the three brothers all had grandsons at the time
|
|
|
|
Post by Valandil on Dec 22, 2007 3:56:34 GMT
OK, let the wardens only check on the stone once or twice in the night - at appointed hours. Val - did you mean something like that? I made the cross larger than the tower base to allow people to go from one wing into the other withut passing through the Tower. Also I rotated the cross 45 degrees to get direct access to the Tower from the Fortress Gates. The warden will live in the Tower itself. I think in the wings the ground level will be occupied by windowless storage rooms. The First floor will have only window slits with heavy bars - so we can house servants and guards there. The upper level - second floor - will have normal windows and will be reserved for guests. - OK? Amon Sul - without outbuildings, Kitchens, stables etc. It is only a rough draft - please post suggestions. - interesting, and it might fit with an earlier sketch I made, but now I'm thinking along these lines:  I was ALMOST finished with another drawing, but didn't get a chance to scan it. I'll go ahead and add notes though, and try to scan and post Monday.  Here's my High Chamber layout:  What do you guys think? |
|
|
|
Post by Valandil on Dec 22, 2007 6:14:10 GMT
: : The peace of Amlaith - very nice, Val, but please give more of #2- it is the crucial one here. There should be said somewhere that Almaith sedes his right to the respective lands to his brothers and their descendants and won't claim them as long as the respective lines survive. : : - you don't want to play this up TOO much. Why would you keep reinforcing to Malvegil that his best chance for reunification was by the process of... elimination!  Besides - if pressed too much, Arthedain can easily declare the whole thing null and void anyway - by the aggression of Rhudaur and Cardolan in prior years. The more onorous the claims, the more likely Arthedain will be to reject all claims of that treaty - and all the more quickly too! I don't know for sure that the document needs to spell out that Amlaith cedes these other lands. For one, that sort of language establishes that he was the only one with a clear claim to them anyway. And - while this may be so, his brothers wouldn't really want to acknowledge it, or see it that way. They would probably operate on the assumption that they had a valid claim of their own - and this agreement was just ironing out what was 'properly' theirs - not some "grant" from their brother. If you (either of you - Gordis or Duilin) still disagree, try writing something out along those lines, and we'll see how it reads. |
|
|
|
Post by Valandil on Dec 22, 2007 6:34:23 GMT
: : ... - presumably the three brothers all had grandsons at the time Actually, none of them did. Odd thing about the northern line - no King seems to have lived long enough to see great-grandchildren. So - King Earendur having just died in 861, he had some grandchildren, but no greats - so his sons only had children. The way I've written it though (and I don't think you've had a chance to see the fuller history, have you?) - the older two sons, Amlaith and Caryontar, had sons by then. But the youngest son - Daurnemir - had only just married a daughter of Mitheithel's Prince (previously jilted by Caryontar). That's how Daurnemir essentially positioned himself to become a player - and late in the game, which led to the founding of Rhudaur. Oh - and when I write up a final "Peace of Amlaith" - I will use the name "Amandur" for Amlaith. It's my own contrivance, but it seems reasonable he would have started out with a Quenya name, since the Kings of Arthedain only switched to Sindarin names after the Division. So - I think Amlaith initially had a Quenya name, and then took - or was given - the Sindarin name "Amlaith" - post-division. I chose "Amandur" because it's similar to his ancestor, 'Amandil' (Elendil's father), because it starts with the same first two letters as 'Amlaith' - and because Arnor had just had a small string of Kings with names ending in 'dur' - so I took it as a trend which was continuing with his own naming. |
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Dec 22, 2007 11:57:31 GMT
Val, beautiful drawing!
But, about the layout -why did you choose to make a covered passage from the Gate to the tower? If an enemy breaks the gate, then they will be protected from arrows, tar and missiles all the way to the tower door.
I guess it is better to let the Gate open into the inner court - cul-de-sac, where any intruders will be easily exterminated by missiles from all sides and from the tower.
Also, how do people get from one wing into another and from one court into the other, and what entrances are there to the Tower? Only one?
Where are the Kitchens? is there anything between the two walls?
About the high chamber: how do guards get onto the roof? There should be access to the roof, you know.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eärniel on Dec 22, 2007 21:19:48 GMT
Regarding the palantir use, just throwing out some ideas.
Maybe if Galphant can steal a few minutes during a couple of successive exercise periods, he may have had enough prelimerary conversation to have Romendacil agree to having one longer conversation. That way there only needs to be one moment of illegitimate access to the tower and the Stone. It's this one time that Duilin and Thurisind can come into action for getting into the tower.
Could there be some scaffolding against the tower, perhaps? I know the middle of winter's not the right moment for remodelling the outside of the tower, but maybe some emergency works are in order? Some batch of mortar or stone has gone bad on the tower wall and needs to be repaired? (One of Gandalf's fireworks has gone off prematurely and smashed into the wall, if we want to be a but excentric. ;D) The scaffolding may be used to gain access to the tower from the outside. Or they might get high enough to throw a rope up somewhere and climb the rest of the way. Just brainstorming.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Dec 22, 2007 22:22:19 GMT
Take care, Val. Am I not a notable conspiracy theoretician? ;D Hmm... so it was Malvegil who has instigated the slaughter of Tarnendur's family?  And poisoned Dirion's son? |
|
And poisoned Dirion's son?