|
|
Post by Gordis on Apr 6, 2007 8:11:21 GMT
This thread is now reserved for Planning - discussing future timelines and events.
Please, don't post day-to day discussion here. Do it in the Discussion thread in the "Roleplays" forum!
And please, do vote! see the other thread in the Plannings. Only 3 of 7 have voted so far.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eärniel on Apr 6, 2007 21:50:34 GMT
I've been thinking. (yes, this does happens occasionally!)
When Broggha kidnaps the princesses, I can understand Tarnendur giving up on Tarniel and Odaragariel when he sees Tarniel and hears she has married Broggha. But will he just accept that Gimilbeth is taken also?
Broggha will be able to give arguments why he took Tarniel and Odaragariel into 'his care', but I don't think those arguments will fit easily to Gimilbeth as well. Especially considering that Broggha won't be able produce Gimilbeth at the siege on account of having sent her off to the North. There is nothing to stop Tarnendur from assuming Gimilbeth has been killed, which -as she was his oldest child and sometimes considered as his heiress- he will not take kindly at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Valandil on Apr 6, 2007 22:56:32 GMT
I'm still considering my vote. I'm about inclined to vote "1347" - it looks like it's going that way anyway.
But some things to consider if we go for that:
1. "Seized" will just about certainly apply with Broggha taking Tarniel, etc. Gaining the King's confidence will probably be totally out of the question (although Broggha may manage to smear a few loyal supporters first anyway - and they may have already lost their heads).
2. This will also make it more problematic for Broggha to perform - or even engineer - the assassinations of Tarniel's brothers. With the earlier stand-off, I think the King would get VERY protective all of a sudden.
Just some thoughts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Apr 8, 2007 20:30:37 GMT
Sorry, Earniel and Val, I have almost missed your posts... When Broggha kidnaps the princesses, I can understand Tarnendur giving up on Tarniel and Odaragariel when he sees Tarniel and hears she has married Broggha. But will he just accept that Gimilbeth is taken also? Broggha will be able to give arguments why he took Tarniel and Odaragariel into 'his care', but I don't think those arguments will fit easily to Gimilbeth as well. Especially considering that Broggha won't be able produce Gimilbeth at the siege on account of having sent her off to the North. There is nothing to stop Tarnendur from assuming Gimilbeth has been killed, which -as she was his oldest child and sometimes considered as his heiress- he will not take kindly at all. Yes..., you are right. But the same applies to Odare, right? Sure, Broggha can show Odare to Tarnendur from the rampart, but he can't show Gimilbeth... Of course, Tarnendur won't be satisfied. But will Tarnendur be able to storm the Mitheithel fortress (WE SHOULD REALLY INVENT A NAME FOR IT!) anyway - with all Broggha's army defending it? But, Earniel, what do you propose? To make Broggha - or Belzagar - kidnap Gimilbeth separately, maybe after the King's army marched on Broggha? But it will complicate/duplicate things... Ideas? Val: 1. I agree, it will be more straightforward than you planned it, it seems. But Broggha may still TRY to be nice - at first. 2. I guess, being away and an enemy, Broggha will not be able to engineer the assassinations of Tarniel's brothers. Someone else has to take care of it. Gimilbeth is a good candidate - after her instruction in Carn Dum she will do exactly what the Witch-King tells her to do. Belzagar will undoubtedly help her. And I am not yet sure, but I think I will add Agannalo to the list of killers - he can go around invisible, don't forget it! Also, if Tarnendur believed that it was NOT Broggha who brought about the deaths of his heirs, then he might soften towards the brigand. |
|
|
|
Post by Eärniel on Apr 10, 2007 9:13:55 GMT
Yes..., you are right. But the same applies to Odare, right? Sure, Broggha can show Odare to Tarnendur from the rampart, but he can't show Gimilbeth... Of course, Tarnendur won't be satisfied. But will Tarnendur be able to storm the Mitheithel fortress (WE SHOULD REALLY INVENT A NAME FOR IT!) anyway - with all Broggha's army defending it? But, Earniel, what do you propose? To make Broggha - or Belzagar - kidnap Gimilbeth separately, maybe after the King's army marched on Broggha? But it will complicate/duplicate things... Ideas? Truth be told, I don't really have any plausible solutions right now. I'll freely admit it is easier to find possible plot-holes than to find plugs for those holes... I was hoping maybe somebody else had an idea. We're dealing with years-long conspiracies, betrayals and multi-country politics, of course things will already be complicated.  Just an idea, would it be plausible for Gimilbeth to, if the palace proved to be un-safe, to pack a few things and go into hiding? One could make Gimilbeth's dissapearance look like unrelated to Broggha's kidnapping of the young girls and look more like her own doing? Gimilbeth is certainly independant enough to make such decisions. Heck, I don't know, I'm probably just indeed overcomplicating things... |
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Apr 10, 2007 11:09:30 GMT
I am not sure I like the idea of Gimilbeth going into hiding. Her best protection is her status - she can have more guards etc, if she feels unsafe. Alone and anonimous she is just a weak female...
After all, if she becomes really paranoid, she can go to Gondor to her mom's relatives.
....
But let us suppose that the Mitheithel fortress is very strong - it may also be atop a steep hill - it is in the mountains after all.
Tarnendur is not satisfied by Broggha's show with Tarniel - but to take the fortress he has to lay a regular siege. And that will starve everyone within - including his daughters. So - what can he do but leave? Tarniel's words will help him to save face while retreating, no more.
Now this fortress in the upper valleys of the Mitheithel - let us NAME it!
Dol Hithaer? (As it is close to Hithaeglir)
Minas Imlad?
Dol Erain? (as it belongs to the "Princes"?)
Any other ideas?
|
|
|
|
Post by Valandil on Apr 10, 2007 11:13:56 GMT
Gordis - those are all good names. Do you have a preference? 
|
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Apr 10, 2007 11:23:04 GMT
No, I don't. Propose a few new ones, and we shall make a poll! I love polls - don't know why, I find it exciting.  |
|
|
|
Post by Witch-king of Angmar on Apr 10, 2007 20:46:42 GMT
No, I don't. Propose a few new ones, and we shall make a poll! I love polls - don't know why, I find it exciting. Gordis, we must have a poll. I enjoy them, too. I used to run polls all the time back when I was a wargamer. Once with Second Darkness, we even ran a poll on which character to torture in the dungeon. I think Frodo won that one. He always tortures well. *grins* |
|
|
|
Post by Gordis on Apr 10, 2007 21:53:18 GMT
No, I don't. Propose a few new ones, and we shall make a poll! I love polls - don't know why, I find it exciting. Gordis, we must have a poll. I enjoy them, too. I used to run polls all the time back when I was a wargamer. Once with Second Darkness, we even ran a poll on which character to torture in the dungeon. I think Frodo won that one. He always tortures well. *grins* Ahh - you evil wraith! ;D Yes - let us make a poll! Any more suggestions how to name the fortress of the Princes of Mitheithel in the Upper valleys of Mitheithel close to the Misty Mountains? |
|
