Shadow Over Rhudaur Planning Thread

[Eärniel]

gordis said:

EDIT: I like your Palace re-modelling project, Val. I will draw it, if Earniel agrees.

No objections on my part, nor on the proposed timetable.

[Gordis]

Wonderful, Earniel! And thanks for voting!

Here it is:



It looks like with the advent of Wilwarin, Odare lost her bathroom and now has to use Tarniel's. You can weave it into your posts, if you like! ;D

Also: Note this permanently locked door leading outside - and the symmetrical one in Gimilbeth's rooms. I think these doors will be instrumental during the kidnapping of Princesses by Broggha.


Val, here is the avvie for you!
i14.photobucket.com/albums/a337/Gor-Dis/Pval.jpg

[Rian]

note - I made brief additions to my posts #23 and #24, developing Callon's obsession with marrying off Caelen, and looking upon Eryndil as a hopeful candidate to get him out of his difficulties...

[Valandil]

Gordis:

THANKS for the great avvie!! ;D

Now... there being one in every crowd (and it so often being me) - I vote to keep us in 1346. Here's why:

1. I DO think some of these storylines may take time to work themselves out... to seem more plausible.
2. Even if we can change all the "1346" entries to "1347" - there may be some things that slip through the cracks and give us internal inconsistencies. For instance - with each character, we have to either change their age or the year of their birth. Some of those references happen casually - information embedded in posts.

Now - life can't always be perfect - so we can live with whatever inconsistencies we don't catch. And I understand everyone's desire to not let this drag out TOO long - in RL time.

Also - I'm willing to abide by however the vote comes out in any case, of course.

Hah - somehow I just THOUGHT some of you guys didn't realize we were starting the game more than TWO years before "The Plunge" I think I tried to explain it, but maybe not - or maybe it didn't work.

Here's a crazy thought though: If we can map out the main events of various segments - and how each character begins each segment, and how they end it... can we possibly handle playing simultaneously at different points in time? It might get confusing - but it could keep the boredom away, especially when the game action might otherwise shift away from your character. Whaddaya say?

[Eryndil]

Rian (Val here natch... wanted to see how my two avvies looked together! )

Eryndil's men are all mounted - so C & C don't have to ride double. However, they CAN - if they still have possessions enough to load up one of their horses as a packhorse. Eryndil and his men are 13 - and his father rounded up 15 horses for him - so they're all mounted, and can still use two for their own supplies, etc.

We're just making slow time from Ostinand to Cameth Brin because several of Eryndil's men are quite new to the saddle. So it seemed more realistic to have them going 20-some miles per day instead of 40 - especially if it's hilly. Reasonable?

Gordis - just as an FYI - I have about four remaining "historical" posts I'd like to make. At least 2 for Eryndil, 1 for Beleg, plus one "mystery" post that I'll do in my Valandil login. I hope to have all that done within 2 weeks. Then I can get myself moved up to the present (and if I manage a little break - all the better).

[Valandil]

valandil said:

Hah - somehow I just THOUGHT some of you guys didn't realize we were starting the game more than TWO years before "The Plunge" I think I tried to explain it, but maybe not - or maybe it didn't work.

Found it! My post at the very bottom of page 16 in the Runnings Discussion Thread at the old site. ;D We go on to discuss all kinds of matrimonial possibilities. From June, 2006.



Gordis:

Actually - some of your material on Rhudaur's royal family hearkens back to Celebrimbor's material - specifically on how and when Tarnendur came to the throne. I have him coming to the throne VERY much earlier (1254) - so that he has already reigned a very long time.

Also - while I make no mention of an earlier marriage, or an older daughter, it can easily be accommodated. Even with my history in hand, it might be hard to sort out Tarnendur's story from my account, so let me summarize:

The fourth King of Rhudaur (Tarnendur's great-grandfather) was Tarnendil - and he was the first to be slain while King (in 1127 - after reigning 25 years), and by his own brother no less! The bloodbath began there. This brother, Histendil, also slew Tarnendil's sons, one of whom was Tarumar (Tarnendur's grandfather). But Tarumar's young son Tarenion, age 5, was hidden and escaped into exile. All this happened in 1127.

Years later, in 1254, after living a life wandering among the Dunedain kingdoms, trying to rally support for his cause, Tarenion marched on Rhudaur. His forces stormed the stronghold, and he himself was mortally wounded while slaying Tarondacil "The Treacherous" - son of Histendil and the worst of all the Dunedain Kings of Rhudaur (the one intervening King was a son of the third brother of Tarnendil and Histendil - he slew his uncle Histendil and was later slain by Tarondacil). So - Tarnendur, the son of Tarenion, became King of Rhudaur. Sort of by default.

Confusing? I even have to draw it up to really follow it.

[Gordis]

Valandil,

Val: Now... there being one in every crowd (and it so often being me) - I vote to keep us in 1346. Here's why:
1. I DO think some of these storylines may take time to work themselves out... to seem more plausible.

"Plausible" is one thing, "interesting" is another. If we want to keep the resulting story entertaining, we have to keep a good pace of events. I am firmly set on moving forward one year. I can't be entertained enough writing transitional posts for a full year game-time. I am not the only one here who feels this way.
The game should be interesting to play. The story should be interesting to read. And isn't it "plausible" that an ailing kingdom had crumbled entirely in one year"? It IS plausible, I say.

if we can change all the "1346" entries to "1347" - there may be some things that slip through the cracks and give us internal inconsistencies. For instance - with each character, we have to either change their age or the year of their birth. Some of those references happen casually - information embedded in posts.

As for internal inconsistencies you speak about, I will take care of them MYSELF - in no time - just altering birth dates in the list. The only ones not to be altered are canon characters and they are pretty few. Here I will alter their age, as it was never mentioned in the roleplay. Only Tarniel said once that Beleg was close to 40. He will be even closer to 40 at 38, than at 37.
Tarniel's age, by the way, 14 in our roleplay, corresponds to her being married next year, at 15. So here there is nothing to change, but the year of her birth. Bithdates of the rest go one year later, except Gimilbeth who will be 107, not 106. There was only a mention that she was over a hundred years old. If some minor inconsistencies still persist, there are guys who have their birthdays in December, aren't there? Those are always one year younger than they appear to be if counting by their year of birth.

And I understand everyone's desire to not let this drag out TOO long - in RL time.

Not so much this, but the desire not to make the story too long and filled with endless minor subplots of little interest to anyone but those who enact them. You see, better keep things lively - with kidnappings, rescues, ambushes, killings and what's not - and not soap-opera style talks in the kitchen.

Also - I'm willing to abide by however the vote comes out in any case, of course.

Thank you for that. I will abide by the vote results also. So, everybody - Vote in the Poll, please!

Hah - somehow I just THOUGHT some of you guys didn't realize we were starting the game more than TWO years before "The Plunge" I think I tried to explain it, but maybe not - or maybe it didn't work.

I did realize it, and complained about it at the time, but I had no idea that you would be so adamant in keeping 1348 as the year of all the major events. I always wanted to start the game later, though, but now I see it was crucial.

Here's a crazy thought though: If we can map out the main events of various segments - and how each character begins each segment, and how they end it... can we possibly handle playing simultaneously at different points in time? It might get confusing - but it could keep the boredom away, especially when the game action might otherwise shift away from your character. Whaddaya say?

I say it is confusing, and it is very dull to write this way. The game should be FUN for everybody here - and at all times.- otherwise the players quit. This way there would be no creativity - just like fleshing out a skeleton, but not creating a sculpture...And what about character interaction? What about unexpected twists?

See what happened just recently: I proposed to abandon Cameth Brin for a time and write only about Gimilbeth's trip to Amon Sul. Then return to Cameth Brin and write about the characters there. The others didn't protest -so it seemed OK. But still we DID return to Cameth Brin, and now the posts are intermingled. It happens because there are 7 writers, and everyone wants to write about his/her favorite characters, and write NOW - when a good idea for a post comes to the player and when the player is in the right MOOD to write a post, and when the player has TIME in real life, and not later, when his turn finally comes. I understand and respect these reasons full well - I am also affected by this feeling - I felt I wanted to post for Agannalo now, when I just have a good idea, and not in 2 months when it would have fitted better. This is life.

Actually - some of your material on Rhudaur's royal family hearkens back to Celebrimbor's material - specifically on how and when Tarnendur came to the throne

Yes it does. As you surely remember, Val, this game was made specifically to fit (loosely) both yours and Celebrimbor's fics. Actually I prefer it so. We started planning it with Celebrimbor. I still have hopes that Celebrimbor may return one day - especially if we live long enough to re-enact the 1409 war. Had we written that Tarnendur had reigned peacefully for many years, there would have been no possibility for Calimendil's desastrous expedition to Cameth Brin somewhere around 1320. He specifically asked us to accomodate this possibility - and it was done.

"I have him coming to the throne VERY much earlier (1254) - so that he has already reigned a very long time.
Also - while I make no mention of an earlier marriage, or an older daughter, it can easily be accommodated. Even with my history in hand, it might be hard to sort out Tarnendur's story from my account, so let me summarize:

The fourth King of Rhudaur (Tarnendur's great-grandfather) was Tarnendil - and he was the first to be slain while King (in 1127 - after reigning 25 years), and by his own brother no less! The bloodbath began there. This brother, Histendil, also slew Tarnendil's sons, one of whom was Tarumar (Tarnendur's grandfather). But Tarumar's young son Tarenion, age 5, was hidden and escaped into exile. All this happened in 1127."

Years later, in 1254, after living a life wandering among the Dunedain kingdoms, trying to rally support for his cause, Tarenion marched on Rhudaur. His forces stormed the stronghold, and he himself was mortally wounded while slaying Tarondacil "The Treacherous" - son of Histendil and the worst of all the Dunedain Kings of Rhudaur (the one intervening King was a son of the third brother of Tarnendil and Histendil - he slew his uncle Histendil and was later slain by Tarondacil). So - Tarnendur, the son of Tarenion, became King of Rhudaur. Sort of by default."

Val, if you are planning to make changes in your timeline story to accommodate this RPG, there is pretty little you have to change: Make another character - Tarnendur's elder brother, preferably called "Ermigil" as in Celebrimbor's fic, who became King of Rhudaur in 1254. Then you can write that he was slain with all his family in another inner conflict, there was anarchy for some time, and his successor was his brother Tarnendur who came from Gondor, who regained the Crown with Arthedain's help (1323).

How does it sound? Note - you are not OBLIGED to change anything in your fic at all. But if you like these stories to correspond perfectly, you may do this little alteration, which no one is even likely to notice.

Why I advise to change your fic, and not this story?
I have explained one reason (Celebrimbor) why I am so set on keeping "1323" in place. The other one is that it is already incorporated SOLIDLY in our written story. The references to it are quite numerous. All Gimilbeth's history for example - her life in Gondor, her ties with Serinde, her unsuccessful betrothal attempts first with Valacar then with Celebrindol is based on it. Also all the reasoning for keeping Curugil , for arranging marriage of Tarniel and Beleg, for asking help from Arthedain are based on the fact that RECENTLY Malvegil helped to put Tarnendur back on the throne. Also, the idea to apply to Romendacil II via the Palantir is based on the fact that Tarnendur is Minalcar's old buddy, who fought with him and that Minalcar knows Gimilbeth personally and maybe even likes her ("Oh how I wish that Valacar had chosen this one - a lot of trouble would have been avoided!" sort of thing)

Anyway - I don't go into whether Tarnendur was even there, what his life had been like, etc. We don't even know where Tarnendur's mother came from - but it's doubtful she was Rhudaurian, since he was in exile. Most likely from Cardolan, but maybe Gondor or Arthedain. Gimilbeth would even have been born at this time - and would be 14 in 1254. If they were in Gondor, she might have even stayed a few more years before following her father north - if 14 is an inconvenient age for you to move her.

As I have said ,it is ALREADY implied many times that she had spent MOST of her life in Gondor, and had been in Fornost between 1307 and 1323.

[Valandil]

gordis said:

Actually, as Val is adamant on having everything of interest happen in 1348 - and with good reason I now think-

Gordis - I don't think I ever said I was "adamant" about this, nor implied it. I certainly didn't mean to, if I did.

I just meant to toss out the further outline for comments.

[Gordis]

Well, you sure gave this impression. But anyway, one eventful year is easier to play than two half as eventful ;D)

[Rian]

Everyone - I made a discussion thread in the RPG forum for discussion of current posts, since this one got moved into the new planning forum. I think we need both - this planning thread for the planning items, and the discussion thread for our fun, friendly chat about people's posts as they're posted, which for me is the best part of the RPG!

gordis said:

Not so much this, but the desire not to make the story too long and filled with endless minor subplots of little interest to anyone but those who enact them. You see, better keep things lively - with kidnappings, rescues, ambushes, killings and what's not - and not soap-opera style talks in the kitchen.

Hey, I like talks in the kitchen!

See what happened just recently: I proposed to abandon Cameth Brin for a time and write only about Gimilbeth's trip to Amon Sul. Then return to Cameth Brin and write about the characters there. The others didn't protest -so it seemed OK. But still we DID return to Cameth Brin, and now the posts are intermingled. It happens because there are 7 writers, and everyone wants to write about his/her favorite characters, and write NOW - when a good idea for a post comes to the player and when the player is in the right MOOD to write a post, and when the player has TIME in real life, and not later, when his turn finally comes. I understand and respect these reasons full well - I am also affected by this feeling - I felt I wanted to post for Agannalo now, when I just have a good idea, and not in 2 months when it would have fitted better. This is life.

To me, the priority is to enjoy ourselves and each other. And I like going where ideas take us.