Storms at Weathertop. Shadow IV- Discussion Thread

[Valandil]

Sept 17, 2009 13:34:31 GMT Gordis said:

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Wait-Wait.... Am I missing something? I thought we decided that the access to the roof of the Tower was not the same as access to the High Chamber where the Paantir was kept?
And if Beleg has the right to bring visitors to the Roof, I doubt he has the right to bring anyone near the Palantir - I even doubt that Annundil the Warden can grant access to anyone without fiirst contacting Malvegil. That was the case with Gimilbeth and the Cardolani anyway...
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I didn't think I ever really agreed about it. Maybe you and Duilin did. But it never quite made sense to me, and I can't really envision it. And if the roof above is supposedly more accessible, but people must be led past a secured door to a very sensitive location - even if constantly guarded - I don't think the roof would be so accessible (don't want to march sight-seers past that door). Nor do I understand why those designing and building the tower would go to the trouble of making two separate approaches, just so the tower access could be more controlled and the roof access less restrictive. And if they DID do so, I think they'd make it darn near impossible for someone to go from the roof to the chamber.

I can't quite get in my mind what you're envisioning about how it all works spatially.

- - - - -

But anyway... I've been the holdup on all this for quite some time. Maybe it's best if you just write around my character as required and put in what you want, and have Beleg operate as you like in your characters' posts. We could even try making Beleg a public character for awhile - at least temporarily - and see if that helps things move along better.

[Rian]

Sept 17, 2009 5:57:32 GMT Gordis said:

And a question for Rian: Are you going to add anything about Tyaron and Alagos on that climb to the roof? Or a chat with Vorondariel? If you do, it will be great, but if you are not going to, why take the Elves up at all?

It wasn't my idea to take them up there, but I consented to have them go along when someone asked me. It was probably just for scenery purposes (a few elves in the background always lend a Tolkien-esque air to things ). I don't plan to do any writing for them in this scene.

[Gordis]

Sept 17, 2009 13:58:02 GMT Valandil said:

I can't quite get in my mind what you're envisioning about how it all works spatially.

Val, have you ever climbed atop a medieval cathedral with high spires or a medieval tower? I did many times.

You climb an endlessly long very tightly winding stair set deep within the thick outer wall, with the railing on your left and the central pillar of the stair on your right. The steps are triangular in shape with the narrow end towards the pillar . The whole stair is very narrow, so if a fat old tourist lady climbs before you, you have little chance to overtake her - I have never dared personally - so often you have to climb at a snail's pace because of it.

But you will notice that there is never anyone going in the opposite direction. You wonder do all the tourists disappear from the roof? Then you find there is another stair - for descent. Sometimes it is entirely separate from the first one, sometimes the two stairs wind around one another, almost like the double helix of the DNA. (I am not sure, but I think it accounts for higher, quite uncomfortable steps on the stairs).
Of course, medieval times haven't known the thousand-strong hordes of tourists constantly going up and down, but still the two stairs are always there. Maybe it was a safety precaution (if one stair is blocked by a fire or foes), maybe it was also to avoid having two groups bypass each other in different directions on a narrow stair.

So, I think Amon Sul had to have two stairs leading to the roof.
The Palantir is in the topmost chamber, just below the roof. What could the builders do to ensure the Palantir's safety? Make the doors leading to the Chamber secret, very special, "magical": invisible like the doors of Moria, opening by a password etc. To all eyes it would seem that there is NO access from the Chamber to one of the stairs (the Roof stairs), or from the "Palantir" stair to the roof. In fact there are secret doors. Only the Wardens could open these doors in case of emergency only, not when they are too lazy to take the longer way, - and likely it was one of these secret doors that enabled the Wardens to save the Palantir in 1409.

So, that's what I propose. The Tower has two winding stairs opposite each other. One is called "the Roof Stair" and seems "normal" - it is used by everybody for access to all the levels of the Tower, except the High Chamber level, and to the roof. Another "The Palantir Stair" is more heavily guarded and leads to the High Chamber. There is strong guard at what seems to be the only entrance to the High Chamber.

But anyway... I've been the holdup on all this for quite some time. Maybe it's best if you just write around my character as required and put in what you want, and have Beleg operate as you like in your characters' posts. We could even try making Beleg a public character for awhile - at least temporarily - and see if that helps things move along better.

As far as I understand, now Beleg is only going to the roof at Gandalf's request. But staying there, he may remember that right below him there is a portrait of his future bride and get an idea to come and have a peek at it later -alone. Come on, he only needs a pretext to go to the Palantir chamber by a usual way....

I suggest Beleg goes at night, during the Palantir-shift of his young uncle Nolentir and asks him nicely to have a peek at the portrait.
I don't think Nolentir will mind too much, he is young himself and fond of Beleg. ;D Plot-wise it will be a great opportunity for Voronwen to introduce Nolentir better.
What do you think, Val and Voronwen?

And note: I don't propose to use any of the Secret Doors now. We can keep them for 1409 - if we ever get that far...
As far as I understand Duilin and Galphant will only make a valliant and unsuccessful attempt to climb down from the Roof. It will be fun.

[Gimilbeth]

OK, a new post is up. Corrections anyone?

Now the ball is in your field, Duilin!

[Voronwen]

Sept 18, 2009 6:26:41 GMT Gordis said:

I suggest Beleg goes at night, during the Palantir-shift of his young uncle Nolentir and asks him nicely to have a peek at the portrait.
I don't think Nolentir will mind too much, he is young himself and fond of Beleg. ;D Plot-wise it will be a great opportunity for Voronwen to introduce Nolentir better.
What do you think, Val and Voronwen?

Let me talk to my 'knight in shining armor' this weekend and see what he thinks about joining just yet Hopefully he is ready to join us. His apprehension has been about 'jumping in' to something already so established, but i assured him that we were expecting him It's an eventuality, but i'm not sure about how soon. But if necessary, i'll start writing the character myself (with the help of others, maybe... public at first???), so that Vorondariel gets her proposal and therefore a solid reason to stay at Amon Sul.

But i agree, introducing him at this very point in her visit would be most beneficial.

[Duilin]

Okay, I just got caught up on all the discussion over the last couple of days. I think Gordis presents a pretty well-reasoned argument for how the two staircases system would work (with examples from the real world!), and agree with her that two trips to the roof seems unnecessary - and actually more complicated than one big trip.

In terms of needing access to the roof, my thought would be that it would be something you would need someone authorized to allow you to do, but authorization would not be terribly hard to come by. The Palantir chamber, and the staircase to it, would be a different matter, assuming that we can agree on having two staircases.

So, what's needed here, exactly? I'm assuming the posts are currently kind of out of order, and this will need to be rectified later - should I do a Duilin post to get the mechanics of the trip to the roof out of the way, or are we still all disagreeing about what exactly is going on? The logistics are confusing to me. If I do write a post, basic structure would be:

1) Duilin talking to Herunarth
2) Beleg, heading towards the tower to see if he can get a look at the portrait, runs into them. He is derailed from his mission by conversation with his Cardolani friend.
3) Gandalf, looking for someone to take him to the roof, runs into Beleg, asks him if he will escort them. With perhaps some silent goading from Duilin, Herunarth expresses an interest in going as well - the whole group joins Gandalf, Vorondariel, and the Elves.
4) The group ascends the stairs. While everyone is gawking about at how lovely it is, Duilin cases the joint.
5) Everyone goes back down.

Would this be okay with everyone?

Also, love the new Gimilbeth post. Poor Amdír and Orogost are getting grifted...I'll try to do a Duilin and an Amdír post over the weekend.

[Gordis]

Sept 18, 2009 19:38:28 GMT Duilin said:

So, what's needed here, exactly? I'm assuming the posts are currently kind of out of order, and this will need to be rectified later - should I do a Duilin post to get the mechanics of the trip to the roof out of the way, or are we still all disagreeing about what exactly is going on?

I think Val sort of gave his permission to write a post and use Beleg for a time. I only don't know whether he is opposed to two stairs or not. As for order of the posts, it is only one post # 71 by Voronwen that should be re-posted after your Herunarth-Duilin's post. Voronwen has already agreed to do it and edit it a tad.

The logistics are confusing to me. If I do write a post, basic structure would be:

1) Duilin talking to Herunarth
2) Beleg, heading towards the tower to see if he can get a look at the portrait, runs into them. He is derailed from his mission by conversation with his Cardolani friend.
3) Gandalf, looking for someone to take him to the roof, runs into Beleg, asks him if he will escort them. With perhaps some silent goading from Duilin, Herunarth expresses an interest in going as well - the whole group joins Gandalf, Vorondariel, and the Elves.
4) The group ascends the stairs. While everyone is gawking about at how lovely it is, Duilin cases the joint.
5) Everyone goes back down.

Would this be okay with everyone?

I suggest to simplify the beginning a bit -
1-2. Beleg simply returns in a quite pensive mood to his friends (he left Herunarth and Armacil eating in the hall near the kitchen). Beleg explains that he had been chided by his mother, but not too badly, and proposes to go outside for a stroll or some sword practice. Duilin joins Herunarth at this point (maybe he brings Herunarth's cloak or something).

Then your 3 and 4: they meet Gandalf & Elves, pick Vorondariel and go upstairs. Duilin notes that they don't take the Palantir stair, but another one. He is spying on the way upstairs and notices that where the entrance to the High chamber would be, there is nothing but a solid stone wall. And on the roof he notices that there is no sign of another stair leading down to Palantir chamber. He is puzzled. Herunarth meanwhile has fun looking around and Beleg seems quite pensive, thinking about his betrothal and forming an idea to go peek at the portrait.

5. I think you should NOT go down yet, because the next post would be Vorondariel's No 71, where they again go up. Maybe Voronwen could add that they went down, it would be easier to read as a sequence.

What do you all think?

Also, love the new Gimilbeth post. Poor Amdír and Orogost are getting grifted...I'll try to do a Duilin and an Amdír post over the weekend.

Thank you!

[Voronwen]

Sept 19, 2009 11:42:24 GMT Gordis said:

5. I think you should NOT go down yet, because the next post would be Vorondariel's No 71, where they again go up. Maybe Voronwen could add that they went down, it would be easier to read as a sequence.

Yes, i can remove the post and re-post it, just let me know when. I can also add the going-down part, as i was planning to add more to this post eventually and add that part in anyway.

I just need to see first what everyone else is doing...

[Voronwen]

I have a possible ending for my revised post, that will set the stage for some future events for Vorondariel I'll just need to fill in the part about having others come along to the top of the tower. So....

Who exactly is coming?

[Gordis]

Beleg, Herunarth with a servant, Gandalf, the Elves...

But we still need for Duilin to post again - for Herunarth this time or for Duilin again?