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Post by Duilin on Sept 10, 2009 18:53:07 GMT
Isn't the idea that Beleg has no intention of taking such a large group up? He and Aramacil and Herunarth are heading to the tower to sneak a peek at the portrait, and Gandalf runs into them and asks Beleg to escort them up?
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Post by Voronwen on Sept 10, 2009 20:44:02 GMT
All of this is fine with me too, for what it's worth. Just please let it be so that Vorondariel still gets to go up there. It's a major turning point in the life of her character.  |
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Post by Gordis on Sept 11, 2009 18:57:02 GMT
Val, I simply tried to point out that it was Gandalf's idea to go to the top, not Beleg's. He was simply dragged along.
If Beleg wants to look at the portrait it would be much easier to follow either his granddad or his uncle or one of the Wardens to the Palantir chamber on some pretext or another... nice and quiet.
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Post by Eärniel on Sept 16, 2009 18:27:26 GMT
If I may add my opinion to the heap (not that my characters are in any way involved in this scene, so take it for what you will) I 'd like to say I think it is best the two groups/ tower visits stay separate. Voronwen has a nice post up the tower, and we already have enough difficulty keeping the plot going as it is, so let's please prevent complicating existing scenes and having to rewrite and shuffle posts, if we can! Besides, I just don't see Beleg agreeing to take a large group up the tower anyway, especially not if it is restricted enough to require Beleg's presence to allow them up. If the outer part of the tower isn't as restricted, (which would seem the most logical situation, if Gandalf is already recruiting people to go upstairs before he even found a necessary escort) Beleg can very easily let Gandalf deal with it himself and politely decline escorting the large company. In any case, trying to tie the two tower visits together, will make for a far more complicated scene, in which we will gain precious little by making it so complicated, while we will spend months to finish it at the rate we're currently going. I think it is also easier (and quicker!) if Duilin and Val just plot the private excursion of their characters between the two of them. And Voronwen and Rían (if she's got time and inspiration to write for her Elves) deal with the Gandalf-tower-visit. This way less characters will remain hanging if other people can't keep up with writing the scene. Considering we haven't gotten Val into writing mood yet  , maybe it's best, Duilin, if you write how you would see the scene with Beleg, Herunarth and Duilin and sent it off to Val, then he can insert Beleg peeking at Tarniel's portrait. I found that method worked perfectly for me to get him writing in the last Sulawen scene! ;D |
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Post by Voronwen on Sept 16, 2009 20:16:53 GMT
And Voronwen and Rían (if she's got time and inspiration to write for her Elves) deal with the Gandalf-tower-visit. This way less characters will remain hanging if other people can't keep up with writing the scene. FWIW, Vorondariel is more than happy to remain hanging around forever up on top of the tower! ;D  But eventually, i do have to get her down. She has business to attend to at the Library.  But i do have more to add to her scene, if it's possible. Rian, if you want to add anything, you're more than welcome. |
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Post by Gordis on Sept 17, 2009 5:57:32 GMT
If I may add my opinion to the heap (not that my characters are in any way involved in this scene, so take it for what you will) I 'd like to say I think it is best the two groups/ tower visits stay separate. I have to disagree, sorry. Two separate consecutive visits to the tower roof would be boring to write and read about. Moreover plot-wise the real importance of the sight-seeing trip to the roof is for Duilin to be there - to spy. Yet he can't have a pretext to be there without Herunarth, and Herunarth can't get there without Beleg. Vorondariel indeed has a great post about her feelings atop the tower. It should remain practically unchanged (except for the lines about the composition of the company) - it is her point of view, how she felt up there - all poetic and thinking of Elendil. It would be nice to contrast it with what others felt - Duilin for instance would hardly spare a thought for the Last Alliance, he would only think how to get from the roof down to the Palantir. The access to the roof of ANY military structure just can't be open to anyone, let alone such tower as Amon-Sul with its commanding view, Palantir an all... The access has to be restricted, IMO, and there should be a representative of Arthedain to lead important foreigners there. Beleg may even get a dressing-down later for leading a Cardolan prince there - after all it must have been Herunarth's granddad or great-granddad who had last attacked and taken Amon-Sul.  I also think that Gandalf should first find Beleg and ask him and THEN invite the Elves. Maybe we can make the Elves come to speak to Vorondariel first and then get invited atop the tower along with her? And a question for Rian: Are you going to add anything about Tyaron and Alagos on that climb to the roof? Or a chat with Vorondariel? If you do, it will be great, but if you are not going to, why take the Elves up at all? Sigh - we are spending months on every little scene anyway, whether it is complicated or not.  Right now I don't really see any complication. Duilin has to write how Gandalf approaches the company of Beleg and Herunarth and they go up taking Duilin with them. They stop to pick Vorondariel (the already written post) and (maybe- depending on Rian) the Elves. I propose to have this as entirely separate scene. It is actually not needed but could make a great post if Val is feeling up to it. What is now needed is Duilin peeking at the roof! ;D |
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Post by Eärniel on Sept 17, 2009 11:06:22 GMT
I have to disagree, sorry. Two separate consecutive visits to the tower roof would be boring to write and read about. Moreover plot-wise the real importance of the sight-seeing trip to the roof is for Duilin to be there - to spy. Yet he can't have a pretext to be there without Herunarth, and Herunarth can't get there without Beleg. Not necessarily. Considering both tower visit happen for different reasons and are written by different writers, it may only be more interesting to contrast them, rather than mix them up. It will be easier, IMO, for Val and Duilin to combine their character's motives for Beleg wanting to see the portrait, and Duilin to scout the entrance to the Palantir room, than combine them yet again with Vorondariel's pivotal emotional moment. It'll also be easier on Val's writing load if he can write about Beleg peeking at the portrait in the visit with Herunarth and Duilin, rather than have him write another, later scene in which he goes to the tower alone. And Beleg might be more inclined to take visitors to areas related to the Palantir that are more interesting for Duilin's plan, if it is only two people, one of which is his friend. He will be less inclined to do the same courtesy to a group of six. A visit with Herunarth and Beleg may therefore be more valuable for Duilin than together with the others. So why add more months by having other people rewrite a scene to make more complicated? I admit, I'm getting pretty frustrated with the pace of this game, so I really dislike seeing things made more difficult than they currently are. Not that it really is up to me anyway, because it's for Duilin and Val to decide what and how they'll write the tower visit. So I'm refraining from further comment on this particular discussion. |
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Post by Valandil on Sept 17, 2009 13:10:55 GMT
Actually - Earniel put some things into words very well for me that I was thinking at a gut level.
Beleg clearly has access to the high chamber. He also has the privilege of bringing others up there. If he brings a friend and the friend's attendant along - that's exercise of his privilege. And if his younger brother goes at the same time - no problem, he has the same access as Beleg.
OTOH - if Beleg brings a party of 8 or 10 or however many are being suggested, it seems more like abuse of the privilege. It's like bringing a school field trip up to the palantir room. He may not get a 'dressing down' for bringing Herunarth, because that action could also foster better relations with Cardolan. But he still might. He would DEFINITELY get a dressing down for bringing everyone along.
Plus - it works counter to his own reason for going up there. How will he discretely look at the painting when he's responsible for the 8 or 10 people he has brought up there? And all of them there to see what he's doing. ("What are you looking at there Beleg? Oh look! A painting of a pretty girl. Hey everyone... come and see THIS!")
I suggest that Gandalf would not seek for Beleg to take his party up there. Either: (1) recognized and trusted as having some 'special role' (however mysterious) by the Arthedain royalty, perhaps he has access that a major Arthedainian noble would have (I believe we even have him addressed by the Arthedainians as "Lord Mithrandir" - though he has no lands). (2) Why Beleg? If Gandalf needed someone to bring him up there, I think he'd go looking for the Warden, his son, or Celebrindol - before even thinking about Beleg.
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Post by Voronwen on Sept 17, 2009 13:27:51 GMT
If Gandalf needed someone to bring him up there, I think he'd go looking for the Warden, his son, or Celebrindol - before even thinking about Beleg. Alas  If i had a secure commitment from my Nolentir, we could have him do it. It might be a good thing for Vorondariel to see him during her 'moment' up there. They don't need to interact, yet. All she would need is to see him. Maybe he's too busy watching out for all these visitors that he'd be too busy to go and talk to her, anyway. I'll see what i can do on this end. He's been in a writing mood lately so maybe now is the time. But maybe this is too complicated already to be adding a new member into it, anyway?  But guys, really... I'll do whatever you need, i'm not opposed to moving the post if need be. Vorondariel is really on her own little orbit ;D She doesn't have anything to do with all these major plot things. She's just there. |
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Post by Gordis on Sept 17, 2009 13:34:31 GMT
Beleg clearly has access to the high chamber. He also has the privilege of bringing others up there. If he brings a friend and the friend's attendant along - that's exercise of his privilege. And if his younger brother goes at the same time - no problem, he has the same access as Beleg. Wait-Wait.... Am I missing something? I thought we decided that the access to the roof of the Tower was not the same as access to the High Chamber where the Paantir was kept? And if Beleg has the right to bring visitors to the Roof, I doubt he has the right to bring anyone near the Palantir - I even doubt that Annundil the Warden can grant access to anyone without fiirst contacting Malvegil. That was the case with Gimilbeth and the Cardolani anyway... No, certainly not to the Palantir room - only to the roof! Yep, that's why I suggest he goes on this errand later and alone... Well, I thought along the lines that Gandalf just stumbled upon Beleg et al. while seraching for someone authorized to lead him upstairs But anyway, better fix it with Duilin... |
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, maybe it's best, Duilin, if you write how you would see the scene with Beleg, Herunarth and Duilin and sent it off to Val, then he can insert Beleg peeking at Tarniel's portrait. I found that method worked perfectly for me to get him writing in the last Sulawen scene! ;D
But eventually, i do have to get her down. She has business to attend to at the Library. 
If i had a secure commitment from my Nolentir, we could have him do it. It might be a good thing for Vorondariel to see him during her 'moment' up there. 