Shadow Over Rhudaur Planning Thread

[Eärniel]

rian said:

Oh, I misunderstood - I thought she was shadowing Tarniel 24/7.

The King did say day and night, but I doubt that's practical, as I said she must have time to sleep, unless Wilwarin isn't the only woman guarding the princesses at night, or unless she's meant to sleep in the princess' bedroom too.

Speaking of that, I've run into another bit of a problem trying to decide on Wilwarin's guard-routine. Odaragariel and Tarniel have their own seperate bedroom, so it will be quite impossible for Wilwarin to watch both girls in their room at the same time. I've been thinking she could take up station in the corridor, and occasionally check up on the sleeping girls. But then she will not be guarding them in their room as the King said she would, and in the corridor it is near impossible to defend the two opposite rooms. If enemies did get inside, Wilwarin would have to choose which door to defend, because she wouldn't be able to guard both. On top of that it's pretty pointless to stay in the corridor, because there are guards just in the hall. Any suggestions or ideas to get out of this impasse would be greatly appreciated, because I'm kinda stuck.

ps - I LOVE LOVE LOVE your froggy avvy!!!! Did you draw it?

Thanks. And yes, it's my latest drawing, supposing to be Heket, the Egyptian frog goddess, but I thought it would make the a most suitable avvie for me.

[Rian]

It's really, really nice! The colors are just lovely, and the whole feel of it is kind of like a Beatrix Potter or a Ernest Shepherd (the original Winnie-the-Pooh illustrator, not the horrible cartoon Disney one) illustration.

Hmm, as far as guarding the girls - I'll have to go look at the map, but maybe there's a connecting hall inside? Or we could put one in. That way, she could be "inside", and pull the girls in with her and lock connecting doors if there's trouble?

[Rian]

gordis said:

Nay we didn't - you only mentioned a village near Cameth Brin where CC's aunt lived.
Also, up to you, but I don't think they would be able to go looking for the aunt straight away if she is not in the city.

Also, Malaneth, their cousin, was captured spomewhere around Penmorva - in the north, not in C. Brin. Suppose the aunt had moved to Penmorva and perished there - but CC's didn't know it? Perhaps they will meet some remaining relative (or a remaining servant) and learn about Malaneth?

Sounds good!

What I am getting at is that I think it would be GREAT if Rian expanded the beginning of her arrival post (dated Oct 21): how CC's rode first through Tanoth Brin (where the hillmen residents still celebrated Broggha's arrival two days ago, calling him "Savior"), and then by the Broggha's army camp itself, where hundreds of brigands were busy building shacks, drinking and merrymaking. There Caelen would have gotten more then ten times her share of lustful glances and dirty comments - CC's would have been quite frightened and appalled. So Callon's rush decision later and his need to protect his sister would be much more understandable. He must have been frantic by the time they reached the stables - he hadn't even thought about Eryndil when he told his lie.

What do you think Rian?

Again, good idea, and makes the marriage ruse more feasible, too. You really have a good global grasp of the details, Gordis!

admin said:

A siege? A possibility, but sieges take a long time, and they don't make for that fast-moving writing. They are long, slow processes of starving out the enemy until he is forced to surrender.

Heehee! This made me chuckle! It already takes months to write a single day; if we did a siege, we'd have to pass on this RPG to our grandchildren!

[Gordis]

About Wilwarin's guard duties
Earniel: "Speaking of that, I've run into another bit of a problem trying to decide on Wilwarin's guard-routine. Odaragariel and Tarniel have their own seperate bedroom, so it will be quite impossible for Wilwarin to watch both girls in their room at the same time. I've been thinking she could take up station in the corridor, and occasionally check up on the sleeping girls. But then she will not be guarding them in their room as the King said she would, and in the corridor it is near impossible to defend the two opposite rooms. If enemies did get inside, Wilwarin would have to choose which door to defend, because she wouldn't be able to guard both. On top of that it's pretty pointless to stay in the corridor, because there are guards just in the hall. Any suggestions or ideas to get out of this impasse would be greatly appreciated, because I'm kinda stuck.

Rian: Hmm, as far as guarding the girls - I'll have to go look at the map, but maybe there's a connecting hall inside? Or we could put one in. That way, she could be "inside", and pull the girls in with her and lock connecting doors if there's trouble?

Right, the King ordered Wilwarin to stay in the same room where T+O sleep. There are two solutions: 1. to make Odare sleep in Tarniel's room with Wilwarin sitting quietly inside.
2. I can change the location of Odare's room to where the "common study" is located and put "common study" instead of Odare's room. - see below. Then the girl's room would be adjacent - and the King can order to make a door connecting the 2 rooms. Then Wilwarin can guard both girls at once, with more emphasis on Tarniel.
What do you prefer?


About Cameth Brin - Angmar and Val
Yes the fortress is virtually impregnable - without advanced artillery and overwhelming assailing forces. Several medieval fortresses were built this way - in France, or Spain, for instance. But the defenders atop a hill could be besieged and starved out. It was exactly what happened in Celebrimbor's fic - I really advise to read it. Once they eat everything there is in the fortress, once they burn all the wood for heating - they are doomed.
Also, another thing about Cameth Brin (also from Celebrimbor's fic). A SOS beacon lit on top of the tower will warn the other strong places in Rhudaur of the Cameth Brin plight. If a rescue army comes - the assailants will have a big problem. Also, note that a beacon atop Cameth Brin Tower can't be missed by the Palantir of Amon Sul - so help may come from Arthedain as well.

Rian: Heehee! This made me chuckle! It already takes months to write a single day; if we did a siege, we'd have to pass on this RPG to our grandchildren!
Right - so very true, but we don't need to take Cameth Brin, do we? Broggha will act by ruse, not by force. There will be no assault, no siege in this RP.

The question is how can Broggha abduct and marry Tarniel without making Tarnendur berserk?

Firstly, we can make the King older - nor 152, but 190 or something. He is an old ailing man. He can have a heart attack when hearing about his daughter fate and become a broken man, an invalid. How about that?

Second possibility is to make the King go away for a time - for example to Fornost to beg Malvegil to send him help. Then when he returns, Tarniel is already married and pregnant, so there is not much he can do.

Also I would say that Broggha should get Tarniel with child right after, if not before he marries her. Then Tarnendur would see the marriage as inevitable. Later Tarniel can have a miscarriage (very young mothers often do) and the child she bore when she committed suicide would be her second.

About spies on the Private Counsil

Val: if there's a guy who is pretty well known to be a spy of Arthedain, what on earth is he doing on the Council?

Curugil is not so much an Arthedain "spy" (it was Gimilbeth who called him that in spite) as Arthedain's semi-official representative. After all, Tarnendur would have never regained his crown without Malvegil's armed and monetary assistance. It is unrealistic to suppose that such help was given without any conditions. One condition would be the future alliance with Arthedain sworn by Tarnendur, another one may have been to make Curugil the brother of the Lord of Nothwa Rhaglaw the Senechal of Rhudaur and the senior member of Tarnendur's council. Note: the Arthedain sympathies of Curugil are evident to everyone, he always cares about peace and alliance with Arhedain - like marrying Tarniel to Beleg. He does a bit more, though, as every month he sends letters home to Nothwa Rhaglaw - and these letters often find their way further, to Fornost. Tarnendur knows it and has to accept it - after all Arthedain is an ally and keeping Curugil was a promise to Malvegil.

Now why is Curugil so Arthedain-oriented? Because Northwa Rhaglaw in a border town in the West of Rhudaur, on the open plain closer to Fornost and Amon Sul than to Cameth Brin. If Angmar attacks, Nothwa Rhaglaw can only be saved by Arthedain.. If a war starts between Rhudaur and Arthedain, Nothwa will be taken by Arthedain very soon. So the lords of Nothwa are most interested in friendship with Arthedain.

About Belzagar.
This one is really a "spy" - his involvement with Angmar is a secret even for Broggha.
Belzagar is a member of the Counsil because he is one of the highest nobles of Rhudaur and the King's relative - lord of Dol Duniath who chose to live at the court of Cameth Brin and not in his remote northern fortress. He is one of those Dunedain who dabbles secretly in the Dark Arts. And the Witch King likely hooked him this way, as for those who seek Dark Knowledge the Witch-King is the best possible teacher and has much to offer in this respect. Belzagar spent some time in Carn Dum (secretly) and now is the Witch-King's loyal tool - unbeknownst to others. Belzagar is clever and makes others believe he is a Faithful. He uses birds to communicate with the WK and also uses Broggha's messengers, never his own.

Val:(PS - from an earlier post by Gordis - how is it that Belzagar was made lord of some land by Angmar, and is therefore on the Council of Rhudaur?

You misunderstood me, Val. I meant "Angmar" = our administrator and co-author, not the "Witch-King" = his character. Angmar has recently posted a character info for Belzagar, making him Lord of Dol-Duniath.
And Belzagar is Lord of Dol-Duniath because he is the rightful heir to it, of course, one of the descendants of Dauremir, I guess, but not from the direct patrilineal line.

It just seems like anybody on this Council would HAVE to be true-blue Rhudaurian. With one spy, everyone - the whole land - is placed in jeopardy. If there was even ONE spy, it would seem remarkable - to have two or more - or the thing just full of spies, stretches my conception. Maybe in a shrinking, declining kingdom perhaps??

Is it realistic? - I think yes, after all Rhudaur is not only a declining Kingdom, it IS in jeopardy, it is virtually a collapsing Kingdom. And it does collapse in 2 years!
And all the members of the council are Rhudaurians. Most, if not all, are the King's relatives in different degrees.

Do Arthedain and Rhudaur have spies in Angmar's inner circle?

Nay - you forget that it was NOT Angmar that collapsed in 2 years, but Rhudaur. Also, the Witch-King is a difficult person to fool, isn't he?
But: Neither do I think there would be Angmarian spies in King Malvegil's inner circle, nor on Cardolan council - only in the doomed Rhudaur.

And - here either my reading or my memory MUST have been lagging, because I don't remember the part about Gimilbeth having "papers" on Belzagar. Hmmm... I vaguely recall some kind of confrontation... Anyway, as another Council member, and especially as the King's own daughter (even as just a plain old Rhudaurian), wouldn't Gimilbeth see it as her duty - even her pleasure - to turn in a traitor immediately? The man should lose his head!

While hunting, Gimilbeth's peregrine brought down a mail pigeon. Gimilbeth found a tube with 3 sheets containing a ciphered message. Belzagar wanted to get the message from her, so he admitted it was his, a "message from his ailing uncle", so G returned him the tube with apologies. But she stole one sheet of paper out of three. She tried to decipher it, but failed. Using Black Magic she got a hint that the message came from an orc.
But Gimilbeth told Tarnendur nothing. She had no proof - as the message was still not deciphered and she couldn't admit she had used the Black Magic to her father.
Also, she wants to use Belzagar for her own ends - she now has a good idea who is the Angmarian spy in C. Brin, and she wants to strike a deal with the WK, especially if she fails to get help from Arthedain. She wants the WK's support to become Queen and she wants Broggha's head. Hmm...She may even propose Belzagar to marry her if he convinces the WK that she would be a better Ruler of Rhudaur than Broggha. I am not yet sure how to play it. Ideas?

[Rian]

Val - I rearranged some posts at the end of part II. I also wrote the gift-giving scene right before your post, and left it at a point where Eryndil needs to respond. If you'd like, his response could go at the beginning of your existing post very well. Or if you'd like, you can write a response and I'll put it in the end of my post.

I still need to write C&C's ride on the FORMERLY best bit of road , complete with Hillman heckling *is reminded of Monty Python's "Your mother is a hamster!" Frenchman taunts*

Gordis - good idea about switching the common room and Odare's room. Can you squeeze a little "service" type room in between the two rooms, with a door to the hall and a door to each room? That would be a perfect little spot for Wilwarin. The idea behind the room would be, perhaps, a place for servants to keep fresh fruit and water and other little goodies in and available to the princesses, without their being bothered (they'd typically keep the connecting door to their rooms locked). Whatcha think?

[Gordis]

Rian: I can do that, OK, but I think we should ask Earniel first - is it OK for her?
Also, does Odare/ Serenoli agree to another room?

Also, IMO, Wilwarin is not supposed to sleep while on duty at night.
So, she doesn't need the room in between the two bedchambers- she should better stay in either Odare's or Tarniel's room with the connecting door open. She can have her own room to sleep in daytime: where it is now. By day, 4 male guards are following the Princesses everywhere.

With all this "political discussion" I had no time for Algeirr post again... too bad.

[Rian]

Yes, of course the final decision is up to Earniel and Serenoli and Elfhild - I was suggesting a modification that I thought they might like better. I know if I were a princess, I would prefer someone in a little ante-room right off my bedroom as opposed to right in my bedroom. The connecting doors and beds could be placed where W could sit in the little room and see both of them at the same time. Just a thought What do you prefer, Earniel and Serenoli? And the room wasn't for W. sleeping - it was like a guardpost room, where she could store some supplies and things. I'm talking a pantry-sized room.

I look forward to your Algeirr post, Gordis - poor guy! I'd suggest having one of the soldiers search Algeirr, as Callon would probably not be let near him in his present mood. I'm planning one more "back" post - the ride on the road to C. Brin - and then I'll be caught up, methinks - yay!

[Witch-king of Angmar]

"Heehee! This made me chuckle! It already takes months to write a single day; if we did a siege, we'd have to pass on this RPG to our grandchildren!" - Rian

Rian, it would be as bad as the real siege of Troy, which lasted ten years. Definitely, our grandchildren would have to complete the writing.

"Also, she wants to use Belzagar for her own ends - she now has a good idea who is the Angmarian spy in C. Brin, and she wants to strike a deal with the WK, especially if she fails to get help from Arthedain. She wants the WK's support to become Queen and she wants Broggha's head. Hmm...She may even propose Belzagar to marry her if he convinces the WK that she would be a better Ruler of Rhudaur than Broggha. I am not yet sure how to play it. Ideas?" - Gordis

Gordis, that is a good idea abou a possible marriage between Gimilbeth and Belzagar. If that should be achieved, I think that pairing would go a long way to spelling the final downfall of Rhudaur. But ideas? That is a difficult one.

"Firstly, we can make the King older - nor 152, but 190 or something. He is an old ailing man. He can have a heart attack when hearing about his daughter fate and become a broken man, an invalid. How about that?
Second possibility is to make the King go away for a time - for example to Fornost to beg Malvegil to send him help. Then when he returns, Tarniel is already married and pregnant, so there is not much he can do." - Gordis

Both of them are excellent suggestions, Gordis. I am glad I asked for ideas. I like to plan ahead, if possible.

[Valandil]

Gordis - regarding the "spies" and everything - OK! Good explanations. I had to laugh when I read which "Angmar" had made Belzagar a Lord! ;D

I guess I'm just one of those that likes to have books filled with things that I already knew, set out fair and square with no contradictions.

Architectural Suggestion: For the young ladies - turn the right hand end of the floor into a suite. First, push the Bath Room into the corner next to Tarniel's Room against the outside wall. Then give Wilwarin a small room about the same size right next to it - also against the outer wall. In front of those is a Sitting Room, with doors opening into the Corridor, the Bath Room, and the rooms of Tarniel, Odaragariel and Wilwarin. The Corridor passes along the front, such that the left hand side of the Corridor lines up with the left-hand side of the girls' rooms.

Alternately - since that gives you a Sitting Room without any light, the Bath Room and Wilwarin's Room could each take a small "bite" out of the corner of the rooms of Tarniel and Odaragariel (respectively) - with all four rooms and the Corridor again opening into the Sitting Room. Then, the Sitting Room is larger and much more cheery. (Palace Remodeling Time!)

Rian - I'll go take a look. I saw your new placeholder, but didn't note the add about the gift.

[Rian]

I filled in one placeholder with a lengthy post - it's under "Caelen", and right above Eryndil's post.

*waits to see what Eryndil will do*