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Post by Gordis on Apr 1, 2007 16:33:56 GMT
Nay we didn't - you only mentioned a village near Cameth Brin where CC's aunt lived.
Also, up to you, but I don't think they would be able to go looking for the aunt straight away if she is not in the city.
Also, Malaneth, their cousin, was captured spomewhere around Penmorva - in the north, not in C. Brin. Suppose the aunt had moved to Penmorva and perished there - but CC's didn't know it? Perhaps they will meet some remaining relative (or a remaining servant) and learn about Malaneth?
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Post by Valandil on Apr 1, 2007 18:25:55 GMT
: : : So, to sum it all, I agree with all your points, Val - but that it is exactly how we tried to play the things so far. Perhaps you have not read all the RPG? Or, it just SEEMS to me that all your conditions are met, but you feel it is not so? - maybe not quite either. I've read MOST of what was posted - especially what pertains to my points. I may have missed a little, but not a lot. And - I wasn't really alarmed/concerned by things I had seen that were counter to those ideas. It's just that I think I expressed some of them earlier - and I didn't know (remember?) if we had ever come to a consensus on it. Thank you very much for taking the time to go through all those items point-by-point. After reading your responses - I agree that we're very close in concepts here.  That's just nice to know. And - I sure don't want to start any trouble over it all... just want to make sure I know what to expect - and preferably, that it all seem reasonable. And it does. |
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Post by Valandil on Apr 1, 2007 18:27:42 GMT
Another question - where would King Tarnendur likely receive someone he had sent for? In the Palace or in the Tower? If the Tower, at the base or at the top?
My guess is the base of the Tower. Does that seem reasonable, as a day-to-day 'workplace' for the King?
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Post by Gordis on Apr 1, 2007 20:50:09 GMT
Earniel: "What is OSA, by the way? I've seen it mentioned before but I don't know what it is."Open Scrolls Archive - a place for Tolkien-related fanfiction stories. www.scribeoz.com/fanfic/latest.php?ord=1&cat=12&sub=0&subsub=&go=Go There is our story posted by NKW - Northern Kingdom Writers Val: After reading your responses - I agree that we're very close in concepts here. That's just nice to know. And - I sure don't want to start any trouble over it all... just want to make sure I know what to expect - and preferably, that it all seem reasonable. And it does.Ohh... perfect then. (I was worried you disliked something already written). I do agree about everything - sure. But - we shall have a problem when Broggha seizes Tarniel and marries her by force. What will prevent the King to call up all his army and hang the brigand? How do you plan it, Val? "Another question - where would King Tarnendur likely receive someone he had sent for? In the Palace or in the Tower? If the Tower, at the base or at the top?
My guess is the base of the Tower. Does that seem reasonable, as a day-to-day 'workplace' for the King? "I think his day-to day workplace would be in the Palace, first floor right wing - see Geographical info thread But on grand occasions, where crowds are present, Great Hall at the base of the Tower is used, yes. And also in the Tower the Private Council meets - almost at the very top. That is mostly tradition - "the very chamber where "???dil, grandson of Dauremir, held his council/court and all the Kings after him." And the Palace is quite new - 20 years only- devoid of any glorious memories
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Post by Valandil on Apr 1, 2007 21:28:36 GMT
: : But - we shall have a problem when Broggha seizes Tarniel and marries her by force. What will prevent the King to call up all his army and hang the brigand? How do you plan it, Val? : : Haven't thought out all the details that far ahead... but if in December of 1348 she is at least pregnant enough to know it - let's say she is at least 4-6 months along. And I doubt Broggha would have wasted any time trying to cement the relationship with a child - so they have not been married much longer than that. So I think they don't marry until at least April-June of 1348 - maybe as late as August. That's 18-21 months from where we are now, gametime. Perhaps it will seem more... palatable then? Or at least maybe... inevitable.?? I might need all of us stewing on it to come up with a scenario that seems probable and realistic enough. But likely by then, Broggha's power has grown further, and the King's has diminished further. Steps along the way: Probably Broggha manages to identify, and then discredit, various allies of the King in turn (Eryndil could be one of those - but not too soon - and then he'll "go outlaw" after Broggha's men destroy Ostinand). Eventually, he'd muscle his way into the domains of the Prince of Mitheithel (he might even kidnap her and bring her there). So - he gradually grows more powerful and the King's followers begin to fall off, until it reaches the point that Broggha thinks he can make it happen. Plausible? PS: Thanks for the rest. |
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Post by Witch-king of Angmar on Apr 1, 2007 22:57:18 GMT
I think his day-to day workplace would be in the Palace, first floor right wing - see Geographical info thread But on grand occasions, where crowds are present, Great Hall at the base of the Tower is used, yes. And also in the Tower the Private Council meets - almost at the very top. That is mostly tradition - "the very chamber where "???dil, grandson of Dauremir, held his council/court and all the Kings after him." And the Palace is quite new - 20 years only- devoid of any glorious memories Gordis, I was never quite clear on this. Thank you for clarifying. A few general comments: As Gordis has explained, Broggha sends tribute to the Witch-king; the Witch-king does not support Broggha financially. About the only help he can get from the North is advice (really control). As with the Gimilbeth kidnap plot, Broggha gets a company of 200 orcs to handle that job. Broggha has a perfect alibi. He is sitting in his hall at his estate near Cameth Brin. If anyone wants to see him, they could always go there. Belzagar (whom I consider to be the major connection with Angmar) was temporarily stymied by Gimilbeth. He always has the fear that Gimilbeth might show those revealing documents to the king. He has even considered having her assassinated but orders from the North ended that. He will sleep better at night after she is kidnapped, and after that, he can become more active. Gordis, you are exactly right. The Witch-king sees the kidnap of Gimilbeth as a real coup, another pawn to use in obtaining power. Broggha is expendable. When his use is over, so is his life, in whatever manner seems appropriate. |
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Post by Rian on Apr 2, 2007 1:41:34 GMT
Considering Wilwarin will only guard the princesses by night (as during the day the girls will have their bodyguard to watch over them) her absence from the story so far will, I think, not be disruptive. I suppose we could let Wilwarin also watch over the girls in the evening, to allow some interaction, but the poor woman has to sleep sometime!  Oh, I misunderstood - I thought she was shadowing Tarniel 24/7. I think it might be nice to write in a few references to her, anyway - I'll take a look. ps - I LOVE LOVE LOVE your froggy avvy!!!! Did you draw it? But - we shall have a problem when Broggha seizes Tarniel and marries her by force. What will prevent the King to call up all his army and hang the brigand? How do you plan it, Val? Well, since we have several people well-versed in potions, we could do a King Theoden thing, I suppose ... (but please not as stupid as the [shudder] movie! [/shudder] ) |
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Post by Witch-king of Angmar on Apr 2, 2007 5:52:29 GMT
But - we shall have a problem when Broggha seizes Tarniel and marries her by force. What will prevent the King to call up all his army and hang the brigand? How do you plan it, Val? Well, since we have several people well-versed in potions, we could do a King Theoden thing, I suppose ... (but please not as stupid as the [shudder] movie! [/shudder] ) Rian, Northern Kingdom Writers would never stoop to such things as the filmmakers did with Theoden. *grins* I have once again been studying the picture and maps of Cameth Brin. From a tactician's point of view, the hill is a nightmare - one road leading up the summit and steep on three sides with waterfalls and rivers in places. It will take a major concentration of troops to storm this virtually impregnable fortress. Even if he called for a major build up of orcs from the North and be allowed them, even added with his troops, they could not do the job. This quote from the MERP game probably says it all: "The ominous shadow of Cameth Brin, the "Twisted Hill," looms above the oaks and elms of the Trollshaws in central Rhudaur. Cameth Brin rises 830 feet above the only vale in all the Trollshaws that might otherwise be called fair. Its base is a steep but natural hill, but from this foundation erupts a tortured outcropping of naked black granite that leans impossibly far over the southern face. It looks as if a sparrow's sneeze would send the craggy top tumbling down upon the town Tanoth Brin and the valley below. But rest assured - Cameth Brin will endure far worse than sneezes." (From the Geographical Thread) Storm the hill? Covered above. A siege? A possibility, but sieges take a long time, and they don't make for that fast-moving writing. They are long, slow processes of starving out the enemy until he is forced to surrender. Subterfuge? A possibility. Some spy within the fortress could open the gates at night. The king would surely be heavily guarded, considering the close proximity of Broggha's camp and estate nearby. There would be a fight to kill the king, and/or remove the princess from the palace. There is always a possibility there could be an alarm and the royal family could retreat to the tower. Still, there is the problem of moving an armed force up that hill. Surely the road is guarded with some means of alerting those on the top of the hill. Very iffy proposition. Removing the king by assassination? Only possible by a palace coup, or when he is somewhere away from the fortress, and very risky. Kill him when he is out riding through the city in a procession? Poison him? Hmmm.... What was the name of that king in Rohan and the name of his advisor? *grins* Kidnapping Tarniel when she is out riding? Truly, this will be a story about "kidnapping princesses" if we go with this option. *grins* Ideas? |
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Post by Valandil on Apr 2, 2007 10:33:07 GMT
Hmmm... will Broggha somehow gain the King's confidence?  Maybe the ICE conceived Cameth Brin is just too unrealistically impregnable? And can you imagine sending out messengers, and having them return with messages? It takes them a LONG time to get halfway out of town - and they just DREAD that last stretch when they're coming back. One more question to throw out there about the Council though:Maybe it's standard RPG fare, but is it realistic to actually have spies for another kingdom on an inner council like this? It's hard for me to imagine, with, for instance - the Saxon Witan mentioned earlier - or in other courts of Medieval Europe - and certainly in antiquity. It just seems like anybody on this Council would HAVE to be true-blue Rhudaurian. With one spy, everyone - the whole land - is placed in jeopardy. If there was even ONE spy, it would seem remarkable - to have two or more - or the thing just full of spies, stretches my conception. Maybe in a shrinking, declining kingdom perhaps?? Is turnabout fair play? Do Arthedain and Rhudaur have spies in Angmar's inner circle? And - here either my reading or my memory MUST have been lagging, because I don't remember the part about Gimilbeth having "papers" on Belzagar. Hmmm... I vaguely recall some kind of confrontation... Anyway, as another Council member, and especially as the King's own daughter (even as just a plain old Rhudaurian), wouldn't Gimilbeth see it as her duty - even her pleasure - to turn in a traitor immediately? The man should lose his head! And... if there's a guy who is pretty well known to be a spy of Arthedain, what on earth is he doing on the Council?  (PS - from an earlier post by Gordis - how is it that Belzagar was made lord of some land by Angmar, and is therefore on the Council of Rhudaur? ) I mean, we could play it that way - but at this point, a little explanation of how all this could happen would be helpful. And again - I really don't want to stir up trouble - but I'm trying to get a handle on all this... |
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Post by Valandil on Apr 2, 2007 11:28:42 GMT
PS to the above:
Are there some gaming reasons to have spies on the Council? Do the other kingdoms have other ways to get their information?
If there must be spies, would a crony or two of Council members suffice?
Just some food for thought...
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That's just nice to know. And - I sure don't want to start any trouble over it all... just want to make sure I know what to expect - and preferably, that it all seem reasonable. And it does.
