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Post by Gordis on May 30, 2009 9:07:47 GMT
As Caelen reflected back on her tumultuous life over the past x months, she was reminded of the adventures of the heroine in her favorite novel, 'Love on the Edge of a Sword' ... I figure this Arienel had written a whole series of novels, popular from Carn-Dum to Tharbad. Don't forget to read " Love at the Spear-Point", " Love Shattered by the Mace of Doom", " Love Pierced by a Dagger" " The Golden Arrows of Love" etc... ;D |
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Post by Duilin on May 30, 2009 13:23:45 GMT
Hurray, new content! Love the new posts.
One potential incosistency - in my last Orogost post, Orogost had sent Belecthor and Hador to the library to look up "case law on inheritance for the last five kings of Númenor" - there was a particular case from the reign of Tar-Telemnar that he thought might be interesting.
So perhaps Hador and Belecthor are already in the library, finding the case law, and then Hador leaves alone with whatever they found, leaving Belecthor to go up to the librarian and ask about the treaty. Of course, it's also possible that Hador decides to bail on the "looking up case law" task, leaving Belecthor to it alone, and Belecthor decides he's more interested in checking out the treaty.
Also - do we have any sense of the details of what the treaty might say? I assume it will be on the vague side...
ETA: Very funny, Rian!
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Post by Valandil on May 30, 2009 16:43:04 GMT
Yes Gordis - great post!  A few thoughts regarding the librarian and the scroll that is in such high demand: The Librarian makes me think of the master of herb-lore that Aragorn deals with in ROTK. I wonder if we should play that up. He could go into even more detail about some things, until he's cut off. Part of that detail could involve the scroll everyone wants to read all of a sudden. The Scroll: Remember that Amon Sul is nearing the end of a stormy history. By the premises of our background, it has been held alternately at different times, by all three daughter kingdoms. In a way, it's a surprise that the library has survived with any degree of intactness. But... it's easy to explain, since the various conquerers were all Dunedain, and the library and its contents would have been considered priceless to them all. They were valued to SUCH a degree, that nobody would even shed the blood of any enemy inside its walls... they would drag them outside before slaughtering them! ;D Suppose that with all those different tenants, various copies would have been made of works held by the library under different supervisors, with differing agendas. It might be that old documents, when copied, might be "clarified" just a bit, to suit the present administrators.  There might have been a few different versions floating around. Or else - all modified Cardolan and Rhudaur copies (copies which might have been more familiar to those from the courts of Cardolan and Rhudaur - if those courts principally kep the 'clarified' versions) might have already been discovered and removed into special storage, if they were not destroyed as fakes. Anyway - it would be too easy if people found wording that says what they want it to say (or would it be too hard?  ). Suppose each borrower finds wording that sort of works against their case. Or - is this complicating things too much? We've sure done a lot of that. Now - I'll have to check: I thought I had an outline of the document someplace. Does anyone remember if I posted it here? I'm pretty sure I came up with the major points, but probably not the final wording. It's easy enough to imagine that even the original words could be misconstrued. They were not written to be an iron-clad, fool-proof document to guard against future possibilities. But there was a very real crisis in the land at the time (~500 years before our game), armies were probably lined up to go to full-scale war, and the brother-rival-Kings reached the point where they wanted to avoid this. It was meant to keep some kind of shaky truce and make it a little more firm. So yes - Duilin - I think even the original would have been somewhat vague) Gordis - if you want some additional wording to make the librarian more tireless in his speaking, here are some things in line with my earlier concepts: "This document was originally known as 'The Peace of Amlaith' - though of course, that term later became used for describing the reign of King Amlaith himself, which was a very peaceful reign. At least it was so in Arthedain, and remained peaceful for a bit longer there, although the same cannot be said for the sister kingdoms of Cardolan and Rhudaur... begging your pardon, My Lady - although in truth, they were the very ones who eventually dragged Arthedain into the conflicts." "We also commonly refer to it with the year of '861', though as we all know, that was the year of Good King Earendur's passing and the beginning of the Division of Arnor itself, and the document itself was actually composed in 862, the following year." "Interesting thing about the copies of this document which we hold here at the Library of Amon Sul. Over the years..." (at this point he should be cut off - either by someone else's interruption, or by Gimilbeth trying to change the subject due to embarrassment or boredom) Like any of this? |
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Post by Duilin on May 30, 2009 18:08:29 GMT
I do like the idea of copies with slightly different wording - BTW, what language would the treaty be written in? I think Quenya, Sindarin, and Westron (or Adunaic-evolving-into-Westron) would all be plausible. Perhaps the original was in one of the Elvish tongues, and later scholars translated it into Westron, but with slightly different wordings.
Of course, we'd have to work out how the somewhat different wordings would affect things. Hmm...this is starting to feel like my dissertation...
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Post by Duilin on May 30, 2009 18:24:26 GMT
Hmm....some further thoughts on the treaty...
An issue is the number of original copies of the treaty, and what happened to them. It seems likely there would have been four original copies - one for each of the brothers, and one to go in Amon Sûl (which would be for convenience if, for instance, it needed to be referred to in talks with Gondor). I imagine that the original copies would be in one of the Elvish tongues. Now, the original copies could have gotten lost - it seems highly likely that the Cameth Brin copy has been destroyed, and perhaps the Harnost copy as well. Presumably Malvegil still has a copy in Fornost, but he would likely not let anyone look at it, and refer to it only to the extent that it supports his own claims. I'm not sure, also, if this would be an original or a copy. How long does parchment last? 500 years is a long time, although I suppose there are still original copies of the Magna Carta, so it's not impossible.
That leaves Amon Sûl. What if the original Amon Sûl version of the treaty was destroyed, but there were several copies and translations left behind. A copy in the original Sindarin, but perhaps of dubious legitimacy because it was prepared at a time when some horrible tyrant from Rhudaur or Cardolan controlled the tower. And then a couple of translations into Westron which differ slightly from each other and from the Sindarin copy. That would give us three copies, but all slightly different, and none with full legitimacy.
Thoughts?
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Post by Valandil on May 30, 2009 19:04:29 GMT
It DOES seem like we could end up writing a dissertation on it. ;D
Maybe just keep it vague for now, and clear it with each other when we want to toss out some alternate wordings on certain issues - and whether there was a corrupted Sindarin word that could be taken as '___' but was, in the original, probably written as '___', and so forth.
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Post by Gordis on May 31, 2009 16:20:38 GMT
OK, I have added Val's suggestions to Gimilbeth's post. Have a look. Duilin, I have added mention of Hador's scrolls on Numenorean law, but I have figured that Belector simply took his time to eat before going to the library, so he came late and decided to first consult the 861 treaty, while nobody is looking. I like your ideas on different versions of the treaty. Likely the only remaining original would be at Fornost, as this place stood intact all through. |
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Post by Duilin on Jun 1, 2009 21:00:09 GMT
Alright, that looks good. So, I guess it's worth discussing what the next step is, since we seem to have regained some energy.
As far as my characters, I thought it might be useful to recapitulate where everything stands
1) I guess we're waiting on Val on the whole Duilin and Thurisind following Beleg in the tower business. I don't think Val ever responded on whether he approved of that whole business. If Val approves, but doesn't have time to write the Beleg post now, we could perhaps leave a blank post and I could write the Duilin and Thurisind post so as to move on with things.
2) considerably less important, but Adrahil is waiting on a response from Malvegil about his suggestion of Beleg as king of Cardolan - in my Adrahil post, Celebrindol had promised to ask his father about that. How that is resolved will affect Adrahil's actions going forward, I think.
3) a meeting between Amdír and Gimilbeth - Barund is supposed to arrange that, I think, so I guess Gordis would need to work something up about it. Once the meeting can be arranged, that plot can start advancing.
4) Perhaps I should post something for Herunarth, but I'm not sure if he's actually doing anything particularly interesting at the moment. He'd mostly be interacting with Val's characters at this point - any thoughts on what he might be up to, anyone? Perhaps he might taking a liking to Calafornien, or one of the other Arthedain girls, while he's being sullen.
5) Galphant's major plotting is going to have to wait on Duilin and Thurisind's report from the tower. Once that's done, though, he's going to have some preparations to do, especially with trying to get Gimilbeth on board with getting him an interview with Romendacil.
So these are the basic elements that I'm dealing with in this section of the story.
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Post by Gordis on Jun 2, 2009 9:21:58 GMT
1) I guess we're waiting on Val on the whole Duilin and Thurisind following Beleg in the tower business. I don't think Val ever responded on whether he approved of that whole business. If Val approves, but doesn't have time to write the Beleg post now, we could perhaps leave a blank post and I could write the Duilin and Thurisind post so as to move on with things. Yes we need Val's approval. Val??? But anyway, another thing we need is for Sulawen to tell Beleg about the bethrothal with Tarniel. In the last Earniel's post she seemed very determined to tell him - so it has to have a follow-up.
Earniel, perhaps you could write the Sulawen-Beleg's post dated evening Nov 18? Maybe Vorondariel overheard the talk so she could warn Calafornien? But it is up to Voronwen... Val - again, we need your answer. Will Malvegil consent to Beleg as King of Cardolan? Let us have this meeting right away- late afternoon of Nov 18. Suppose Amdir meets Gimilbeth in the court and invites her and Barund (for decency sake) for dinner in his quarters. Or they could simply talk while walking on the promenade along the encircling wall. What do you think, Duilin? Hmm... Herunarth and Beleg might take Vorondariel and Gandalf + maybe the Elves ( Rian?) to the roof of the Tower to show them the place where Elendil had waited for Gil-Galad. ;D It is not necessary, but would be fun. Ah... and Duilin might try to follow. Maybe it would even be more plausible than this night escapade of Beleg. What do you all think? I think we shall have a time-jump very soon - to December 10-12 or something like that. The first post after the jump will be the announcement that Romendacil has granted Gimilbeth an audience and another one to the Council of Cardolan. Then Galphant can ask Gimilbeth to arrange a clandestine interview for him the following night at the appointed time. So, let us try to list the posts to do before the jump: 1. Vorondariel and Gandalf by Voronwen Afternoon of Nov 18 2. Amdir and Gimilbeth by Duilin - Afternoon of Nov 18 3. Sulawen and Beleg by Earniel - Evening of Nov 18 4. Maybe an excursion to the roof : Gandalf, Vorondariel, Beleg, Herunarth, T&A +Duilin  5. Maybe nocturnal escapade of Beleg followed by Duilin and Thurisind??? Is this OK for everyone? |
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Post by Duilin on Jun 2, 2009 11:10:58 GMT
Duilin is technically pretending to be Herunarth's valet, so he might go to the roof with the group without trouble...either way for him to think of the idea of dropping down to the chamber works for me.
A dinner between Amdír and Gimilbeth seems fine to me, or a walk - whatever seems to work out naturally.
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). Suppose each borrower finds wording that sort of works against their case.