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Post by Eärniel on Oct 20, 2007 17:36:04 GMT
I also like version D for the Angmar-flag. The fortress looks more imposing when broader and I like the crown above it best.
If you're still not certain about the design of Arthedain , you might try maybe a circle of stars around the circlet? But I already quite like the last flag that Gordis made, with the staryy arch above the circlet.
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Post by Gordis on Oct 20, 2007 20:02:55 GMT
I agree with Earniel, I would have chosen D-Angmar and the last Arthedain. But the final choice is for the banner-owners respectively. I am afraid a circle of stars on a blue field reminds me of something... ;D Yes it does, precious....
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Post by Eärniel on Oct 20, 2007 21:28:08 GMT
Oh. Darn. Um. Right. Incidentally, I've always thought it was a pretty flag, politics notwithstanding... That must have played a unconsciously part somewhere... *crickets* Damn, I'm dense at times. ;D
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Post by Witch-king of Angmar on Oct 20, 2007 22:16:08 GMT
Angmar - You know what that banner made me think of? The WK at Minas Tirith - when his hood is down and you see the body below and the crown above. ;D Maybe even play that up: like Gordis suggests, make the crown a little taller, and maybe re-proportion the parts of the castle to suggest (at least to those of us 'in the know) the upper portions of a human figure below the crown. So - maybe crown taller & narrower, larger portion of castle just a bit wider - with maybe low towers to set off the ends. Dare we add two red stars for eyes? Val, it does look like the Witch-king's seemingly headless body with the crown atop the head. I did not really notice that until after I finished it, but then it hit me - the WK at Minas Tirith. Of course, I have been writing for the Nine for so long that I feel that I AM the Nine. *grins* "Not an artist, Angmar? You must be joking. Great work! I LOVE this tower. The only thing I would have changed is to make the crown taller." - Gordis I go with D on your revisions of my original design. I was not totally satisfied with my original. I did it when I was rushed. If you notice, the battlement was a bit asymmetrical. This problem has been remedied in D. "I like "D" - it looks like the WK is wearing a red turtleneck sweater! And... his heart is an open door!" - Val His heart is perpetually open, especially when there is a comely maiden involved. ;D He always needs another companion and helper. ;D
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Post by Valandil on Oct 21, 2007 3:41:49 GMT
: : ... He always needs another companion and helper. ;D Yah - I guess he must keep losing them somehow!
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Post by Gordis on Oct 21, 2007 11:03:16 GMT
I have put the Angmarian banner in place.
What about Cardolan, guys?
I personally favor the hawk flag, as Cardolan is mostly green hills with hardly any big animals: mostly sheep around - but they won't do on a flag. ;D The birds of prey should be fairly common, though. Or we take the ship flag? Or do we invent something else? - then advance your ideas, please
I would like to ask everybody's opinion- especially yours Duilin and Val.
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Post by Duilin on Oct 22, 2007 14:28:40 GMT
The hawk works for Cardolan. I would say, though, that they would certainly not have removed the crown as yet. As far as the official position of the Council of Cardolan goes, it is not yet proven that there are no heirs to Caryontar, and thus the situation is merely a regency while the true heir is found. Even if there are no male-line heirs of Caryontar, it is not yet at all determined that there will be no new king of Cardolan. I would assume that when the Prince of Baranduin becomes Prince of Cardolan, some new composite banner would be designed, sans crown, that combines whatever the Baranduin banner and the old Cardolan banner would have had. But not yet - the Kingdom of Cardolan still exists, even if there is not yet a king. Hell, some might even consider that Malvegil would merely become king of Cardolan, in personal union with Arthedain, but still its own kingdom.
Again, in terms of the Princes of Baranduin, I'm not sure - I don't think a ship makes sense for a house centered on Tyrn Gorthad, but otherwise I've no strong thoughts.
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Post by Gordis on Oct 22, 2007 19:43:19 GMT
Thanks, Duilin - I agree with your points - also about the crown. What say you to this one?
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Post by Gordis on Oct 23, 2007 7:56:55 GMT
Val, Duilin, Angmar and all the others interested in heraldry, Perhaps we should invent some general conception of what the banners of the original Princes (Mitheithel, Baranduin and Lune) looked like? Likely the banners were similar and dated from Elendil's times. I believe each had black field in there somewhere - as Arnor flag was black. Instead of 7 stars, I think there was but one - the Star of the Dunedain. No crown, but maybe something - a Rod of office maybe? as Princes were like the King's stewards or deputees in different parts of the realm. also have a look on this site with fan-made banners: www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion/eriador_flags.htmlThere are two banners (Dol Caladir and Ethir Gwathlo) with a diagonal line representing a river. Maybe we could use this idea for our river-Princes? Say a diagonal river, a star in one corner, a Rod in the other? And colors differ: maybe the colors are now same as in Rhud Arth and Card? Then, when we agree on the general idea, we can find different elements, most suitable for each of the Princes. What do you think?
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Post by Valandil on Oct 23, 2007 11:04:28 GMT
I think it's a great idea to start with a concept of what they would look like initially. Then - we can think in terms of later changes for current banners. However - I think perhaps each should have their own color. Black could be reserved for royalty(?). Or - maybe some black could be used on other banners, but an emblem of silver or white on an all-black field was reserved for royalty, and other lords would have a different principle color. Just like - in western Europe, purple long signified royalty (in dress anyway - not so much banners, I suppose), while in China, yellow was considered the imperial color. When the Numenorean Exiles first came to Middle Earth, they were seafaring men, arrived in ships (of course), and the princes of Arnor were at first established (in my fanfic anyway) along the three main rivers of Eriador: the Lhun, the Baranduin and the Mitheithel. A star could be a good theme - but individual differences would be nice too. And Gordis... GREAT work so far on all these banners!
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